Talk:Main Page/main-02

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Archived  by me today from Main Page Midgley 21:27, 15 February 2006 (CET)

I have kept ideas where implimented.Mlj 21:52, 10 February 2006 (CET)

Added a basic index of subheadings - dok Perhaps best not to Hyperlink the section titles

categories may be a better way of assigning articles to crafts, in that an article may be part of several. Possibly the list of specialties would be as well represented as categories.Midgley 17:02, 15 November 2005 (CET)


I took away the Medical Communication heading and put the contents under misc. - trying to keep front page as small as possible - hope you dont mind Peter Dokane 17:39, 16 November 2005 (CET)


Contents

Soundbite

I added a first version - this is what to say if one is asked (eg by a news-person or an NHS administrator "What is ganfyd?"

I thought it was good to separate that first, soubndbite, line there. I have not reverted the change, but let us consider that, please. Midgley 22:05, 18 November 2005 (CET)

Not capitalised - Ganfyd.

HonCode

We should have a marker on teh Wiki, probably as a fixed element in every page. http://www.hon.ch/HONcode/Conduct.html Midgley 11:53, 18 November 2005 (CET)


Interwiki

Ganfyd can (should) now be reached from Wikipedia by using ganfyd:Whichever_page_you_link_to via interwiki. See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Interwiki_map

PUBMED can be reached with [[Pubmed:UID]] where UID=The pubmed ID.

Look at an unwritten page on Wikipedia

For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:sdlhslfsflkhsdfl

Note how it has a nice bit of text about how it hasn't been written yet and theinvite to write it, and alsothe link to search for that topic. Maybe we can tweak the code to do the same here? --A.l.brown 19:33, 18 November 2005 (CET)

Licence

front page

have tried to classify specialties - not sure if it is easier to read or worse! feel free to change back if you don't think it's helpful? Mark ong 19:14, 20 November 2005 (CET)

Have made a few changes and added a table to try and presnent it all more concisely Dokane 23:45, 20 November 2005 (CET)

Looks good! --A.l.brown 09:31, 21 November 2005 (CET) I think the automatic table of contents should be turned off on the main page. You can do this by adding the magic word __NOTOC__ to the page. I honestly think everyone will like it! Rupert 20:44, 29 November 2005 (CET)Rupert

OK. I guess I'm worried about doing something unpopular to something so prominent, but you're quite right! Rupert 23:40, 29 November 2005 (CET)Rupert

Tinkered a little more with the main page tonight. Only problem I can see is that the text wrapping around the disclaimer box is unsightly at 800x600. Don't know what can be done to remediate this. Any ideas? Rupert 01:41, 30 November 2005 (CET)

Formatting text wrapping around the float box is a difficulty that one often encounters when floating images & boxes using CSS. This is something that the W3C are looking into for CSS3 I believe. --A.l.brown 10:13, 30 November 2005 (CET)

Computing?

Would it be appropriate to have a (non-medical) computing section for the FAQ type stuff and LUG?MAC stuff? William


How do we make it feel like a community

..rather than a group of docs just doing their thang ??

I dont think dnuk is too keen we use their place and i dont find the discssion pages easy for just general chat. Will neil give us a forum ?? somehow doubt it. Bears and sh*t wood. Can we embed on a page here a messageboard ?? a java chat thing ?? just thinking aloud.... Dokane 20:15, 21 November 2005 (CET)

-- not sure, but agree forum of sorts would be helpful. DNUK would be the most convenient, but at the risk of upsetting Neil. any alternatives. don't yahoo have some sort of forum? or msn/irc? Mark ong 18:45, 21 November 2005 (CET)

oh, i quite fancy a computer forum. it's not like we're strapped for space at the moment. Mark ong

I'll set one up by lunchtime tomorrow :-) --A.l.brown 19:36, 21 November 2005 (CET)

I have been thinking about a mailing list - a bit more push than a forum...Also use the talk pages like this.

and the obvious one - a meeting and some lunch

Midgley 20:09, 21 November 2005 (CET)

http://ganfyd.org/forum - You have to register again when you get there. I have tried and tried and not managed to marry the two databases up I'm afraid. The test server is a mess! --A.l.brown 15:55, 22 November 2005 (CET)


Future thought

We should consider when we have more content having a dowloadable format of the site for handhelds/pdas for palms and pc Dokane 19:40, 23 November 2005 (CET)

A good idea. --A.l.brown 09:49, 24 November 2005 (CET)
I suggest we make an effort to include on-line communities in references and further reading. THis differentiates the collection from a paper book or a walled garden system.

Licence

Draft 1 Needs a roundel with a stethoscope in it I think. Or maybe a caduceus. And a few other things like the links sorting etc etc. Comments please Midgley 15:50, 24 November 2005 (CET)

Looks good. I can try and come up with a roundel--A.l.brown 18:14, 24 November 2005 (CET)
Need to get the licence set up correctly before large numbers of people are involved.Midgley 00:18, 30 November 2005 (CET)

Forum & registration

See post in forum --A.l.brown 18:04, 24 November 2005 (CET)

Survival guides?

Maybe the Surviving the PRHO/F1 year thing could be one in a series of survival guides? e.g.

  • Foreign doctors
  • Illness
  • Allegations made by/to GMC
  • 1st week as consultant

etc???


Wikipedia Medicine Portal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Medicine

This deserves a place on either a front page or a fairly prominent one.

It isn't a competition, those are articles on medical matters in a general encyclopeadia (or encyclopedia even) while these are articles on medicine for medics, at least as the target audience.Midgley 20:26, 28 November 2005 (CET)

Ganfyd, Wikipedia and WikiMD =

http://www.wikimd.org/index.php?title=Wikimd:Community_Portal

There are distinct differences. The content of ganfyd is from the start intended to be controlled to qualified editors, and therefore to carry a certain authority.

Both of the projects above are encyclopedic in nature, and ganfyd is intended to be more at the textbook end of the spectrum, accessibility to a general audience being less importnat, and a level of knowledge and understanding in the reader taken for granted which it would be unfair to rely upon in the others.

I seek comment on that. Midgley 16:53, 17 December 2005 (CET)

Mednotes Medical student Wiki

http://mednotes2.wmsiow.com/index.php/Main_Page

Could also be incorporated / referenced into ganfyd in a similar way... --MoLE 22:20, 17 December 2005 (CET)

Other related Wikis

There are links on this page to ?3 other related Wikis (a medical student one; WikiMD, which seems to be a US medical encyclopaedia (or as it's a US one, encyclopedia), and Wikipedia medical portal.

I agree with the idea that there should be a reasonably prominent link to these pages - or perhaps, to a page that links to them, such as Related wikis.

I've created a page, using the three Wiki's mentioned above, but haven't put a link to it from anywhere (other than here) yet.

Front Page Design & Layout

I've had a play with the front page. If nobody likes it we can always revert back to the way it was! :-) Any views? --A.l.brown 14:58, 20 December 2005 (CET)

I like it well enough.Midgley 15:00, 20 December 2005 (CET)

I know there is a lot of HTML on it, but I figure that it is the front page and one should expect the front page to be a little more 'designed' than standard pages --A.l.brown 15:03, 20 December 2005 (CET)

A bit of a shock when not expected, but looks good. --Penglish 18:27, 20 December 2005 (CET)

A great improvement - I love it! I think a front page like that justifies almost any amount of complex HTML. Rupert 22:20, 20 December 2005 (CET)

I see that several of the topic headings have fallen off the bottom - or at least, aren't visible without scrolling down. Perhaps we need to have links to the headings near the top. Shall I add some? --Penglish 15:37, 24 December 2005 (CET)

I was wondering whether the front page should actually have huge lists of contents on. Maybe we should just have that top 'contents' box, with everything else on a separate contents page(s). This would leave the front page uncluttered, with maybe a 'topic of the month' box or something, and a nice stock picture. Simple & uncluttered rather than busy. Any thoughts? --A.l.brown 09:26, 6 January 2006 (CET)

I'd wondered about that too. But I actually prefer to have access to more "contents" from the front page. Not very PC or "designer", perhaps, but more useful. Otherwise I'd end up bookmarking a "contents" page rather than the main page... --Penglish 09:29, 6 January 2006 (CET)

Designing and writing Hypertext References

http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/ applies to this hypertext system. http://www.alertbox.com articles also do. Worth having some familiarity with some of them in the team.

Upgrade to 1.5.5

Fixes a few bugs, such as the User messaging bug. Also prevents .wmf files from being uploaded. Upgrade went OK, apart from minor falling over when it came to bespoke registration system used here, but all working properly now. --A.l.brown 17:29, 8 January 2006 (CET)

Good work! Rupert 17:52, 8 January 2006 (CET)
Well done! Will LaTEX work now? --Penglish 18:53, 8 January 2006 (CET)
Will LaTEX work now? - I wish!!! Thats going to need a server upgrade rather than just a software upgrade, and until this place is bigger we probably can't afford it yet. I'm still working on coming to some kind of arrangement with the service provider though. --A.l.brown 19:26, 8 January 2006 (CET)

Category as Template!

I didn't realise it did this, if you use curly braces instead of square brackets around a category: tag, whatever text is in the category page is displayed on that page as well.

See Folliculitis

Thats very clever! --A.l.brown 14:59, 14 March 2006 (CET)

Revamp Front Page january 2006

Please excuse me if we split the front page behind a few back pages. Its just too dense and information loaded. If you dont like what I do then just yell ! Dokane 21:11, 12 January 2006 (CET)

Ok just finshed - it looks much cleaner .... hope its ok folks Dokane 21:29, 12 January 2006 (CET)

It's certainly clean - sterile in fact, so I think extra content such as the suggestion below would definitely not come amiss. I don't think the chapters should be numbered and I'm not dead keen on the centre alignment.

I had this idea about a "daily pearl of wisdom" about anyhting medical or related. Would be a nice gimmic to get people to look Dokane 21:44, 12 January 2006 (CET) ...As long as it does change...can we have an automatic rotating database as a Cron job

I suggested something similar on Ganfyd_talk:On_this_day. A cron job is unnecessary & would be very hard work, as well as existing outside the framework of MediaWiki. It's easy to make a page change each day - look at the wikipedia front page: {{Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}}} . A daily pearl of wisdom would be good. Easier to have than an on this day box. Say the word & I'll code it now. Rupert 00:30, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Some slightly better formatting as an HTML table sometime will be in order Mlj 23:44, 12 January 2006 (CET)

Sorry to be dogmatic but HTML tables should not be used for layout. Divs are fine. Rupert 00:30, 13 January 2006 (CET)
to be a bit less dogmatic you should use Divs where ever the 3 mainstream browsers IE, Mozilla and Opera will give you similiar layout and Tables still have a place where Divs won't work. ...CSS and Divs have proved a pain in IE and by IE 7 Microsoft may actually read CSS to W3C standards :-) Mlj 01:17, 13 January 2006 (CET)
I use Firefox but I check an article or a template in IE when I finish it, if it's at all possible that they'll be unpredictable. I haven't any complaints over how either browser handles divs. The front page has always, as far as I know rendered identically in IE and Firefox. The tiny little differences in the right hand edges of columns on the front page as it stood this morning were present and almost identical in both browswers, and they were due to small mistakes in the code. 100% instead of 99% and slightly wrong values for padding. Rupert 01:39, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Sandbox Main Page Changes in Future

I think the main page of the site needs care ++ whenever major change...links must work ! -Links below INDEX dud at moment Suggest we consider special sandbox Should we revert to old version until new version stable ? Mlj 23:58, 12 January 2006 (CET)

I agree. The front page must be fully functional. I think we should use a sandbox version of the front page. Broken links on the main page doesn't look good. --A.l.brown 08:51, 13 January 2006 (CET)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Medicine is a nice layout. I agree wholeheartedly that the original main page had too much stuff on it, and I'd drawn a few layouts out on paper. Don't forget that they have to work in skins other than the default, which is why <div></div> tags are used as tables don't tend to cross the skin/browser barrier as uniformly.

I cut the links that didnt work as they are duplicated in the links to the pages - I like the idea of people thinking of the site as a book - its a common paradigm asthye say. I feel on the whole that the front page is much more accesible and can take you where u want to go quicker. Dokane 08:58, 13 January 2006 (CET)

I've suggested some additions to the main page and put them on Ganfyd:Prototype_Main_Page. Rupert 09:13, 13 January 2006 (CET)

I've made a prototype at User:A.l.brown - It includes most of Declan's content, and scales a little better on low-res screens. Also doesn't take up much room, and there is space for the 'On this day' and 'Pearls of Wisdom' boxes at the bottom if we want them, plus you could get away with rotating the picture on a regular basis if needed --A.l.brown 12:01, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Oh, and you could use the same format for each of the pages listing the specialties if need be. --A.l.brown 12:04, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Personally I think a disclaimer box the full width of the page looks better than a short fat one in the middle. (Excuse my grumpiness today, I'm still getting over the flu). --A.l.brown 12:24, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Sorry I assumed it was your intention from "margin:__px auto". Either way, you're scrolling down at 800x600. I did it because the exclamation mark makes the box that height, but feel free to remove the exclamation mark by reverting it. Rupert 13:35, 13 January 2006 (CET)

First impression - I prefer User:A.l.brown to Ganfyd:Prototype_Main_Page. --Penglish 12:10, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Me too! I've overwritten the changes I made in Ganfyd:Prototype_Main_Page. I think all future changes of this magnitude should be allowed to mature there. While this was a very worthwhile rewrite, it's been rather frantic, because it's been on a live copy of the most prominent page on the site. Sandbox not so good as a prototype page, as edit history could conceivably deleted, and it might be nice to know who did what and what was tried etc. Rupert 13:35, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Present front page variant is nice. I like the small old picture. Midgley 13:31, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Agree. Much better...prizes all round Mlj 23:36, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Public health

While most aspects of Public health actually fit into one or other of the categories on the main page, there are some that don't; and (as a Public health doc!) I feel that there should be such a heading on the main page.

But I'd rather seek approval from others before adding another heading.

(ps - doing this on an HP iPAQ via my mobile.)

Peter English.

I'd have to agree with you. Public health is more than just a specialty - in fact it encompasses an awful lot including health policy, the NHS, disaster planning, etc etc. ( re iPAQ - well I looked at the recent changes page last night on my PDA whilst in the bath via my wireless network! :P ) --A.l.brown 15:53, 13 January 2006 (CET)

I prefer the pink bar with the warning to be all across the top as Adam had done it and amybe place it BELOW at bottom of the other tables. Great work and much friendlier front page Dokane 16:47, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Presently the front page is an unbalanced composition, the white spaces to left and right top are glaring.
I would retain teh warning, if we feel we need it, and I shan't argue with anyone who feels we do, at the top, and I would put it on the right rather than in teh centre, or be happy with using the full width, although I think its impact is better as a taller rectangle of less width. Midgley 16:53, 13 January 2006 (CET)

ganfyd licence (g)

I lke the current (C) ganfyd stamp, but I wonder if using a gin the c would be good? Midgley 16:55, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Medical Textbook?

In the disclaimer, on the front page, I wonder if we are, or should be, saying that his is a medical textbook, by doctors (and exceptions) for doctors, although anyone else is welcome to read it, and it isn't self-help. Midgley 17:04, 13 January 2006 (CET)

Templates or headings

Has someone created any for

  1. Drug classes eg thiazides
  2. Individual drugs eg how does this look Furosemide
  3. Diseases
  4. Operations and Procedures
  5. Tests

Is there somewhere where I can post some and see how they look and function Dokane 17:41, 14 January 2006 (CET)

This is a recommendation in progress of Dokane & Mlj for drug page structure: Please

  • categorise drugs under Medicines and their respective Drug class
  • categorise types of drugs under Drug classes

Individual drugs

Introduction

Clinical Use

Indications

Administration

Oral

IV

PR

Clinical Issues

Toxicity

Contra-indications

Cautions and Interactions

Side effects

Special advice

Pharmacology

drug classes

Introduction

History

Clinical Use

Indications

Clinical Differences

Clinical Issues

Toxicity

Group Contra-indications

Group Cautions and Interactions

Group Side effects

Special advice

Pharmacology

Mlj 23:23, 14 January 2006 (CET)

Might we make some use of templates here - having a template for a class of drugs, and including that in the page for each member of that class.

The template might contain much of the material that tends to be placed in category pages at present. Midgley 03:00, 16 January 2006 (CET)

Front page

tweaks - can someone with the skills make the two boxes the same height. perhaps even as comumns in same table is possible. Loos unbalanced at present Dokane 19:57, 16 January 2006 (CET)

can have a div with absolute height or height in ems I suppose...Midgley 14:35, 17 January 2006 (CET)

Capitilisation of lists

I always capitalise all items in a list.

This is Agreed style


HON

We are now in their search engine. http://www.hon.ch/cgi-bin/update.pl?HON14567

There are a couple of things they advise, if we want to be listed as Honcode compliant, and show a Honcode badge.

THe fit and therefore the things to do are less exact and useful here than for most of the sites involved, but the effort is trivial, the HON foudnation is a Good Thing staffed by Good People, and therefore I suggest we do them. I'll paste a message below .

I've added a contact details page to the navigation bar, so thats one requirement met. --A.l.brown 18:22, 18 January 2006 (CET)

Your HONcode ID number: HONConduct797255
Your URL:  http://www.ganfyd.org/

Dear Information Provider,

Thank you for showing your support for the HONcode, Health On the Net
Foundation's initiative to improve the quality of the medical 
Internet. Your Web site has been visited and reviewed by the HONcode
team for compliance.


We are contacting you regarding important action which must be
taken in connection with your HONcode application. After visiting
your site, the HONcode team was not able to find any information
about:


- Principle 3 - Confidentiality - A statement or a privacy policy 
page regarding confidentiality of data must be clearly displayed.

While reviewing your web site we have found no description of your
privacy policy.
   
However, this rule is very important and applies to all websites.
Please, describe the privacy policy of your web site and explain 
how you handle the following information sent to you by your visitors: 
email addresses or/and contact information, names, personal or medical data.
 
It is also important to describe your policy on sharing of visitor information 
with third parties.
    
 Application guidelines: 
http://www.hon.ch/HONcode/Guidelines/hc_p3.html

- Principle 6 - Transparency of Authorship - Website contact details
Essential Points:

A working email address or contact form must be available from the 
homepage and easily found from anywhere on the site. Please, add to the 
homepage of your web site a working e-mail address or direct link to
the page with a working e-mail address.
  
Application guidelines: 
http://www.hon.ch/HONcode/Guidelines/hc_p6.html


The contact addresses concerning your site are:

Contact 1: mungbean @ ........... 
Contact 2: amidgley2 @ ..............

Please inform us of any changes at updateNF@healthonnet.org


A descriptive listing of your site, http://www.ganfyd.org/
has been added to MedHunt, Health On the Net's medical search engine.
I would therefore be grateful if you could check the details of your
listing, available at the HTTP address below:

         http://www.hon.ch/cgi-bin/update.pl?HON14567

and reply to me with any comments and additional information about the
content of your site that you think would be helpful to our users.

Periodically, we will contact you to ask that you review your link for
accuracy.


It is important that you inform HON when you have made the required
changes so that we can certify your site's compliance with all eight
of the HONcode principles.

Now that we have pointed out those areas needing attention, it's up to
you. Please re-read the HONcode principles, especially those mentioned
above, and find a satisfactory way to integrate them into your site.
If you are not sure how to proceed, we're here to help. The principles
were designed to be easy to implement, and nearly 5,000 sites have 
already been certified.


If you have questions, don't hesitate to contact us.
I look forward to hearing from you,
Thank you for your co-operation,

The HONcode team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Code of Conduct Department          | HONcode:
http://www.hon.ch/Conduct.html
Health On the Net (HON)             | HON: http://www.hon.ch/
Geneva University Hospital - DIM    | My electronic mail is
CH-1211 Geneva 14, Switzerland      | HONcode @ healthonnet.org
Phone/Fax:(41 22)372 6273/8885      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Default Searchspaces

We have a lot of useful material in category pages, however these are not searched as part of the main namespace.

Can we make the Category search as well as main space the default option for all users? Midgley 16:30, 19 January 2006 (CET)

Linking to Wikipedia

I have already contributed some stuff to the Hepatocellular Carcinoma page on Wikipedia. Two Q's: 1: Can we (temporarily) link to it

YES OF COURSE -encouraged

2: Can we cut & paste the article.

ONLY if you attributed the creative commons license (see templates) although of course your own work with in the article, given the nature of the respective licenses, could be used

Think the idea is great

Developing World

I hope the site is of use to doctors in the UK/ NZ/ etc., but it might be even more useful to those in the developing world.

One way would just be to make a 'Speciality' like Medicine/Surg/ PH labelled Medicine in the Dev. World, and then link from there, plus some additional articles (like how to improvise a one way valve for a chest drain from a glove)

I'm not going to just go ahead and do it, I wanted people's thoughts first

MattW

I think it is a great idea. I'd go for it if I were you.
PS: I've got a few ideas for laboratory medicine in the developing world, and I know a microbiologist who works in the developing world, so maybe we could get some input from him. --A.l.brown 11:06, 1 February 2006 (CET)
That runs into trouble on two of the underlying premises of this project, and sparks a thought on licencing in my mind.
It isn't a bad idea, but I suggest doing it rather differently.
The first collision is with ganfyd is not GP Notebook. (Substitute "Wheeless Textbook" if you like, or Virtual Hospital, or any resource of that older type).
The second is that _a_ ganfyd-like project would be a collaborative one by the people using it. I suspect that people practicing where you need to improvise equipment are quite good on it, and it may be that their improvisations will be more informative to us than vice versa. We may be able to lay out material about what we do and how and why which helps them to come up with new ideas though, and we might find those useful - if they were fed back to the Digital Commons.
And the other thing is the licence for modification, which sort of heads back to both the main points above.
I suggest offering a separate wiki, or assistance with setting one up, and linking pages as appropriate, and by all means keeping in mind other people's circumstances and the circumstances UK/Aus/Can/NZ (I assume) doctors may find when they go globetrotting when we write pages here. Military medicine may be worth looking at, and remote and rural.. Midgley 17:43, 4 February 2006 (CET)

Example Box

We need an ExampleBox template. What would the icon be? Midgley 17:43, 4 February 2006 (CET)